Curse

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i somehow think the thousands of lines of code, and the hours of beta-testing inscriptions (along with the chance of MASSIVLY screwing everything up), somehow amount to more time than it would take to input another collector.

That's great...let me add that to the list of arguments.

"I'm protecting the casual player from this"
"I'm saving GW from itself"
"I'm saving the development team work"

I think maybe they should stop issuing new chapters. After all, that's a lot of work, and the new skills could just screw everything up, just like heros could too.....

sixdartbart · Oct 12, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Wow, and you so almost had me convinced with how everyone will suffer if things are actually realistically obtainable with inscriptions. You shoulda stressed more how you want to protect your "wealth" so I woulda seen the light earlier.

Does this mean you can't produce those 6 items? Surely not.....

Hmmmm I'm fairly certain that there is not a single example anywhere in this thread where I have ever said anything about "protecting my wealth" or even mentioned my wealth so it's a pretty large assumption on your part that I even have any.

Rather I have stated what I believe to be rational arguments about the negative effects that this new system will have on some of the long term aspects of the game as have many others who have immediately been disregarded by people like you who think they are only concerned with their own personal wealth.
As far as the items that are causing your game-play to suffer so horribly by not having them, If I personally had any interest in having them I would do as I have done with everything else in the game that I have ever wanted and spent my time getting them which from your approach of telling everyone else to get them for you or shut up tells me exactly why you suffer so badly.

Either you honestly have no idea how to get the things you want or just plain and simple think everything should be easy to get if it is a "vanity" item or not.
And no I won't go find these items for you!!! But I assure you that if one of my friends wanted them I would be more than happy to put in the effort to help them get em

Jetdoc · Oct 12, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

You're missing the point, sumrtym...

One poster claimed that it would be too hard to introduce green/collector/crafter items in the game for many of the combinations that are not currently available.

Akhilleus is simply stating that instituting an entirely new inscription system, revising the mechanics on how every item in the game works, is MUCH harder than simply adding several new items with existing skins.

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

That's great...let me add that to the list of arguments.

"I'm protecting the casual player from this"
"I'm saving GW from itself"
"I'm saving the development team work"

I think maybe they should stop issuing new chapters. After all, that's a lot of work, and the new skills could just screw everything up, just like heros could too.....

no, what im saying is it would be FAR easier to input the missing mods into collectors than it is to input inscriptions that work without
A: dissolving the economy
B: have a chance of accidentally "deleting" weapons when you try to salvage them
C: any other list of things that could go wrong.

lets not forget that when anet first inputed the material storage, some people's mats started disappearing, anets policy was "we're sorry, but we cant do anythign about it." what do you think would happen if when people go to salvage their 15.50 mods, and the enire weapon just disappears, with no mod being salvaged, or anything. you'd get a lot of pissed off players.

my point was, testing new features is a pain in the ass...adding new options to existing collectors could not possibly take as long as properly coding/testing an entirely new and experimental game feature.

so, logic sais, if the pro-inscriptionists are ONLY in it for the evrsatility of mods; to make every mod available in the form of collectors, crafters and or greens...
but, i also know, this would not stop the pro-inscriptionists. why? because its not actually the mods you NEED, its the skins you WANT.
believe me, i agree with you that its frusttrating that some of these mods are missing from collectors, do you think i LIKE having to wait 8 months to find a gold version of an item i NEED? (and i guarantee you, its harder finding the items than it is affording them)
the answer is: no, i dont enjoy having to search endlessly for missing caster mods.
solution: add them to the collector so they are easier to get.

but again, this will not quell the pro-inscriptionists, because its not the mods most care about, its the skins. there are many ways to accomplish the goal of making mods easily available (even more so than they already are) without tanking gold items, but most pro-inscriptionists wont hear of it, they refuse to comprimise, because they dont WANT comprimise, they want everything, at the cost of nothing.
time and time again the people from my side of the line have proposed mediums that would maintain the market, but make all mods available to players of low means, and time and time again, ahve been shot down with the argument "but, but, but, i want my XXXXX skin!"

but let me ask you this.
who do you think would be the first people to own 8 15.50 crystallines and various other skins, if inscriptions are made available?
answer: already existing wealthy players.

i can assure you, most of the anti-inscriptionists in this thread do NOT have everything they want at the current moment in time...but WOULD if inscriptions are made available...because we're the ones with massive stocks of various items of various skins of various mods of various requirements, sitting in storage in massive quantities. welathy players do not get wealthy by buying everything in sight, they have to pick and choose and compromise between the aspects of their reason, and the aspects of their desire; instead of getting a 15.50 crystalline and bankrupting yourself, you get one thats 14.50, at a more affordable level. you reserve perfect stats for more affordable skins; we would be the FIRST people who have what it is we want, we'd have to spend FAR less time in trade channels getting inscriptions or low-req items of the skins we want in order to mod them, because chances are we already own the items, just not necissarily in damage mods we are fond of. but we may certainly own weapons with perfect damage mods with skins we dont care for, and have no problem salvaging them for inscriptions.
so, if we would be the first people to benifit from inscriptions (and probably those who would benifit MOST from them), not to mention the fact that we'd be making absolutly aggregious profits off of selling the 15.50 mods that we got off weapons we bought for 3-5k over the past year...
then ask yourself, why are we not arguing on your side of the line? well, actually, a few of us are. death by amor, for instance, is in this category. he, to me, has come off as a fairly wealthy player, but not one with the means necissary to get EVERYTHING he wants...but inscriptions will allow him to do so, and so he has allowed his greed to overcome common sense. he has stated that the first thing he will do is apply the mods he wants to the skins he already has, something he cannot currently afford to do.
others of us, have put the personal benifits aside, and seen that it will ruin long-term fringe benifits to the game, along with the shutting down of another possibly entertaining aspect for people we know and others as a whole.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Akhilleus is simply stating that instituting an entirely new inscription system, revising the mechanics on how every item in the game works, is MUCH harder than simply adding several new items with existing skins.

With much greater benefits.

Jetdoc · Oct 12, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Not everyone buys from other players. I don't, for one. If I can't find it, I'll wait until I do. So for many, the 'go buy it' argument fails. Besides, why should that aspect of the game be denied to me...

I totally respect you for doing so - it is exceedingly difficult to find people that are willing to forego the trading system and become a "pureist" - one that only takes what the game gives him. I personally follow that exact same ethos for each of my characters until they finish the main storyline - and then I pursue other "goals" in playing the game (at which time I open up the buy/sell possibility).

That being said, I think players like you and I comprise a very small portion of the community. Fissure of Woe armor is a perfect example - it would be almost impossible to accumulate the 1+ million in gold by foregoing the trading system entirely (i.e. you gotta sell your gold items to someone other than the merchant to get more than 1 million gold).

Jetdoc · Oct 12, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

By the way, I really hope that the developers at A-Net have reviewed threads such as these to assess the impact of the potential change. I think some of the pros and cons listed in the thread are very relevant to the "leaked" change, and hopefully they have considered modifications to the system to address some of the concerns.

But that may just be high hopes on my part. Great discussion, by the way! Although this thread is long, anyone that takes the time to read at least some of it can get a nice flavor as to what some of the tension points related to the change are, good or bad.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Fissure of Woe armor is a perfect example - it would be almost impossible to accumulate the 1+ million in gold by foregoing the trading system entirely (i.e. you gotta sell your gold items to someone other than the merchant to get more than 1 million gold).

But FoW is perfectly obtainable. Weapons with the skins you want are not.

BTW, sixdartbart, you're thowing around the assumptions yourself. I've farmed like a madman, and am not any closer to finding the items I seek. I have 3500 hours in game, 4 sets of FoW armor, and countless weapons / greens, but not the ones I want the most.

Again, if these are obtainable realistically, why is it no one can show any to me?

That in itself is the answer and why the inscription system makes sense.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I totally respect you for doing so - it is exceedingly difficult to find people that are willing to forego the trading system and become a "pureist" - one that only takes what the game gives him. I personally follow that exact same ethos for each of my characters until they finish the main storyline - and then I pursue other "goals" in playing the game (at which time I open up the buy/sell possibility).

That being said, I think players like you and I comprise a very small portion of the community. Fissure of Woe armor is a perfect example - it would be almost impossible to accumulate the 1+ million in gold by foregoing the trading system entirely (i.e. you gotta sell your gold items to someone other than the merchant to get more than 1 million gold).

All arguments aside, I still have yet to have an answer regarding what harm there is with me salvaging inscriptions and making the weapons of my choice? It certainly won't hurt the mythical economy; I don't dump gold into that entity anyhow... the only arguments I can see that explain the outrage (by a minority, mind you) is that they fear prices dropping and their personal wealth somehow being diminished. Even the argument about finding rares fails... you can still do that unaffected.

What real harm to the game is there if I salvage inscriptions and create what I want?

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

But FoW is perfectly obtainable. Weapons with the skins you want are not.

BTW, sixdartbart, you're thowing around the assumptions yourself. I've farmed like a madman, and am not any closer to finding the items I seek. I have 3500 hours in game, 4 sets of FoW armor, and countless weapons / greens, but not the ones I want the most.

Again, if these are obtainable realistically, why is it no one can show any to me?

That in itself is the answer and why the inscription system makes sense.

i've wanted a r8/9 +30 hp always -2dmg while in a stance or -5(20%) crude/carapace shield for nearly a year..
ive been activly searching for one for 6 months.
affording one is not the issue, of that i can assure you...finding one is.
however, i fully recognize that this is an item i want, with stats i want, with a skin i want and with a requirement i want. i am capable of recognizing that it is something i want. if, on the other hand, i were to need the particular stats i would simply go to kaineg, and craft one for a few thousand gold. no big deal, i'd have it in secconds. but, i am not willing to tank the games economy, and the future replayability of people i know, because of soemthing i want.
if, however, the game lacks crafters with the mods you need then anet should provide them to you via crafter...this keeps guildwars true to its goal; you wouldnt need to farm endless hours to get what you need. but, simentaneously, it would maintain the value, mystique, and rarity of what people want.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

no big deal, i'd have it in secconds. but, i am not willing to tank the games economy, and the future replayability of people i know, because of soemthing i want.

The games "economy" will not tank. It will change. It will not tank.

Replayability will be improved. Items once discarded as worthless will have new value for their components. Casual players will be much happier when they can take that fairly crappy Jade Sword they happened to get in a chest, shuffle around the inscriptions and mods, and have something nice. This change will greatly enhance the play of GW's middle and lower classes, which is the vast majority.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i've wanted
ive been activly searching for one for 6 months.
affording one is not the issue, of that i can assure you...finding one is.

Exactly. And why FoW armor is craftable, and not a drop. Inscriptions removes the stupid barrior, and prevents people losing interest / frustration because of the sheer impossibility of finding what they want to make their characters look how they wish under the present system.

BENEFIT without DOWNSIDE.

If you wish to continue looking in your near hopeless quest vs. crafting one after inscriptions, no one is stopping you. Enjoy like you always have.

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

The games "economy" will not tank. It will change. It will not tank.

if you are such an economical expert, then why are you not richer than i am?
the guildwars economy may not blow up in an apocalyptical event, but irreperable damage will almost certainly be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

If you wish to continue looking in your near hopeless quest vs. crafting one after inscriptions, no one is stopping you. Enjoy like you always have.

my point was that the difference is you have the attitude of "i want what i want, and ill get what i want, damn the consequences, and damn everyone else."
i at least try to look past the personal benifit to see what works as a whole.
if they make inscriptions viable, i'd have the remaining half dozen items i want that i dont already own, inside of appx 30 secconds, but that doesnt matter to me if it ruins the game in the process. i guess thats where we disagree.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i guess thats where we disagree.

Where we disagree is you enjoy searching for something you will never find in any likelihood, whereas I want to set actual ACHIEVABLE goals. You prefer goals that are not achievable.

If you dispute this, show me a 20/20 req 8-9 zodiac wand for curses, blood, or death. And yes, I'll continue to beat you over the head with this. Adding together EVERYONE'S total hours on GW, and you can't show me ONE.

Inscriptions are needed, and don't wreck anything for anybody that doesn't selfishly promote themselves over others. I am for this for EVERYBODY. You want to protect your stuff.

If you want to farm for that drop without using inscriptions to obtain it, no one is stopping you. Same goal, same fun. Unless it really is about denying everyone else what they want....

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Where we disagree is you enjoy searching for something you will never find in any likelihood, whereas I want to set actual ACHIEVABLE goals. You prefer goals that are not achievable.

If you dispute this, show me a 20/20 req 8-9 zodiac wand for curses, blood, or death. And yes, I'll continue to beat you over the head with this. Adding together EVERYONE'S total hours on GW, and you can't show me ONE.

Inscriptions are needed, and don't wreck anything for anybody that doesn't selfishly premote themselves over others.

i prefer goals that arent achievable?
really, so please, tell me, what are my goals? please, please, inform me your heinous, because i am inferior to your all-knowing wisdom and do not know what i want for myself. please tell me what goals it is i have failed to meet for myself, so that i may promptly begin living up to your great expectations.
i beg of you, share with me your enlightenment.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

if you are such an economical expert, then why are you not richer than i am?

Do you know this for a fact?

No, I'm probably not. For one thing, I give stuff away. Gave a guy a req 8 14>50 shadow bow just last night, as a matter of fact. So no, I may not be "richer". I'm inclined to believe that I enjoy the game more, however, by not worrying about such trivialities as an imaginary economy. Greater gameplay comes from greater enjoyment of the game, not feigned wealth.

That being said, my archer hero (when I get one) will be toting a req 8 15>50Platinum longbow I found, probably with the 20/20 sundering string I salvaged the other day (first one ever!) and a +30 fortitude thingie. It will be nice having the option to take all those items off the bow and shuffle things around. Greater enjoyment = greater gameplay.

Quote:

the guildwars economy may not blow up in an apocalyptical event, but irreperable damage will almost certainly be done.

How do you define "damage"? It will change. Prices will shift. Relative values will be shuffled and out of the dust will settle a new pricing system. Nothing will be broken or destroyed. Change is good. Stagnation kills games.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i prefer goals that arent achievable?

Your self stated 6 month shield search. Put that into context with my above. Stop acting like a wiseass and actually respond to my points. You know they're valid.

Your whole oppsition comes down to your own "location" moniker: If it ain't expensive, it ain't worth buyin'. Stop pretending your interested in anything but you, you, you.

Cybah · Oct 12, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

isn't it fun to know your weapons are rare? and only a very few people got them too?

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

isn't it fun to know your weapons are rare? and only a very few people got them too?

It's fun to find a rare one, true. But if other people have them as well, it in no way diminishes the fun of me having one.

Helcaraxe · Oct 12, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

/cry

prices will fall.... on everything. When you get that gold with perfect mods now it seems it will be nigh worthless.

People talk about the non-farmers and the poor people of the game... screw that

low prices = bad economy

If the prices are low, yeah, you can buy it for cheap... but about the people trying to sell? they get screwed out of their income. There is a reason that the greens that only sell for 10k aren't farmed.